http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/edu ... buste.html

gotta love how antigun we're becoming

That poor kid!

This has happened many times over the years at schools all over the country. The problem is that kids either willfully or unknowingly go against a rule that is ZERO TOLERANCE. What's the school system to do in even this obviously benign situation? Let it slide and open the floodgates to others trying to probe what they can get away with against a ZERO TOLERANCE rule? That defeats the purpose of the rule to begin with. Or do they clamp down and make good with their pledge to uphold their rule for anyone that breaks it, no matter how ridiculous the infringement is? The "If/Then" boolean logic of the rule is simple enough for any grade school child to understand. And it makes enforcement that much easier. Remember folks, elementary school is suppose to be an authoritarian institution!

In any event, the kid learned his lesson.

You are right, if he was my son, I would give him a whipping he would not forget regardless of it being a toy or not.

I knew A kid that got expelled for a sketch that he drew in art class depicting a marine kicking down a door. The art teacher saw it and immediately turned him into the office. The teacher told everyone in the beginning of the class to draw what they wanted to do for their career, So my friend drew a marine holding an m16 kicking down a door. It was very good to, he is a very talented artist I think he could be a drafts man one day. But he was later kicked out of the school because they deemed him a "threat", he was led of the school in cuffs and was put in a squad car and everything. I don't see how any of it made sense since the teacher told everyone to draw what they wanted to do and that's what he wanted to do, so how could he beheld accountable for the wrongfulness of the sketch? I mean I could understand if the drawing was of some gangster selling drugs or shooting up a bank, But a marine kicking down a door? Come on......

LOL. Not what I meant... but...

I agree with you Reason. If they let one thing slide then they open the flood gates. That I understand. But there are better ways to talk to kids and parents that dont result in children calling their moms in hysterical tears and then having the mom come down to throw a tantrum. If it were my kid I wouldnt have thought about it. It seems totally harmelss.

There have historically been many warning signs of impending violence that most people let slide because they either didn't know the warning signs or they thought it wasn't there problem. Case-in-point: Maj. Malik Nadal Hasan. His case raised so many red flags and warning bells, yet people that could've done something willingly chose to let it slide. This went on for years, and we all know what the outcome was.

It doesn't take much to see the parallels in his case and that of school shooters. Bullying, not fitting in, rebelling against establishment, getting revenge, etc. It always starts small then builds up. I'm not saying just the act of bringing something as small as an action figure's gun to school means the kid is the next Eric Harris of Dlyan Klebold. What I am saying is that there is the potential that there is a problem that might need to be addressed.

And what if this kid does indeed have a problem? What if he was in the back of the class, pretending to shoot his other classmates? Not so serious, right? What if he was always targeting one person? What if he had done this more than once, and it finally got out of hand? What if he is totally fixated on this gun? The news story as I read it was nearly 100% on the side of the mother and her child. But Mommy's little man would never grow up to be a serial killer, now, would he? Crocodile tears and righteous indignation can go a long way in the media. And don't you find it interesting that the school had no comment? There's a good reason for that.

Bottom line is this: The school system doesn't want to be held responsible should he become a danger to others. They don't want to be seen as ignoring the problem if later on down the line he does start shooting people. They're playing it safe. And remember, all the school did was send him to the principal's office and called his parents because he broke a ZERO TOLERANCE rule. The fact that he wasn't expelled showed some common sense was followed. Then again, common sense would say you don't bring toy guns to school when the rules clearly state you shouldn't, and you might get expelled if you do.

and what are these warning signs?

is going out every weekend, dressed as a soldier and shooting people with near perfect replica weapons considered a warning sign?

It could be if the individual has problems drawing the line between fantasy and reality.


Also, this has been unashamedly lifted directly from the interweb:

http://life.familyeducation.com/safety/ ... 29709.html



Granted, I use to "torture" and kill small furry animals by the hundreds while showing no emotion. Classic sign of a potential serial killer.

Also, a nice article written about Zero Tolerance: http://www.schoolsecurity.org/trends/ze ... rance.html

i don't know i've airsofted with some pretty scary people.

but in all seriousness this is a load of crap. bringing a LEGO gun to school is nothing. walking around school in a trench coat with no friends, taking notes about how many people are in the lunch room at one time is a warning sign.

you wanna see warning signs, watch the movie Elephant by Gus Van Sant

I have to admit that I agree with Reason. Its either a zero tolerance policy or its not. I would rather have to deal with little issues like this than constantly be worried about my kids being in danger when I drop them off at school.

It is amazing how we wrap ourselves in these discussions and try to make sense of what looks like common sense. But in the long run we are still going to see people loose it and bring a gun to school, work, or a playground near you, and take peoples lives away.

Rules will make you feel better, but it wont stop someone from breaking them. Check out how many people obey the cell phone laws when driving. How many lives are affected when an accident happens from being a distracted driver.

A back ground check wont keep a crazy person from getting a gun, it they were not reported crazy. Banning guns wont stop people from getting guns.

The good thing I see are more people are stepping up and taking action when there is time to act. Like the passengers who took on the terrorist who tried to ignite his boom, which got through airport security, one of the most resent incidents.

Or the teacher who tackled the kid carrying a gun on campus and shooting randomly, last Spring.

Or the people turning in the name of the guy who shot the police officers in the donuts shop up North, so the police could track him down.

All of us are capable of doing the right thing if there is time to act. Like a teacher walking up to a student who is in fourth grade and telling him, I'll hold that 2 inch toy gun until after school for you, and give it to your mother when she arrives to pick you up.
Compared to say a student who in fourth grade last month brought his fathers Glock 19 to school to show his friends. That student was suspended for 3 days. This one happened in Irvine.

We are all capable of doing the right thing, if we have time to act.

WOW that's BS I feel sorry for that kid

Completely agree.

Also if people are going to act like that POS LEGO figure 2 inch gun could ever be something that could actually kill someone than we shouldn't ever see airsoft guns without the orange tip.

By law you are suppose to have orange tips on airsoft but you dont see anyone complaining about it why get mad about a kid that just wants to be a kid and hardly did anything wrong. Sure zero tolerance on guns, etc. but seriously this is where common sense kicks in and you say to yourself will this actually kill someone or can? No.

This is getting so bad that we just might turn on our own government.

Common sense went out the window when the parents ALLOWED this kid to take a Lego gun to school.

Homework - check
jacket - check
binder - check
lunch money/sack lunch - check
Lego toy gun - WTF???

yeah.... have fun with that

According to the poll here 93% of people reading this think that the administration overreacted. 7% think that the lego gun was unacceptable. Not that that proves anything, but it is interesting to see what people think.

Speaking of what people think, here's my $0.02.

Simply bringing such a toy to school should not have attracted any such attention IMO. Unless, as Reason suggested, there could be more to the story, a history we don't know about, (violence, threatening) it could be justified. It's kind of like the whole airport security debate. Do we use behavioral/racial profiling and risk "offending" people, or do we set up scanners to scrutinize every person?

I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with the notion that the kid did something wrong by bringing legos to school. If that is considered an illegal object, then what is next? What makes that a "gun?" I remember pulling out the headrests on car seats and using them as "turrets" to play star wars when I was (an even younger than I am now) kid. You kind of have to sit back and think about what defines a gun.

gun   [guhn] Show IPA noun, verb,gunned, gun·ning.
–noun
1.
a weapon consisting of a metal tube, with mechanical attachments, from which projectiles are shot by the force of an explosive; a piece of ordnance.
2.
any portable firearm, as a rifle, shotgun, or revolver.
3.
a long-barreled cannon having a relatively flat trajectory.
4.
any device for shooting something under pressure: a paint gun; a staple gun.

Now, here is the School weapons legislation:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.280

Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities — Penalty — Exceptions.

(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

(a) Any firearm;

(b) Any other dangerous weapon as defined in RCW 9.41.250;

(c) Any device commonly known as "nun-chu-ka sticks", consisting of two or more lengths of wood, metal, plastic, or similar substance connected with wire, rope, or other means;

(d) Any device, commonly known as "throwing stars", which are multi-pointed, metal objects designed to embed upon impact from any aspect;

(e) Any air gun, including any air pistol or air rifle, designed to propel a BB, pellet, or other projectile by the discharge of compressed air, carbon dioxide, or other gas; or

(f)(i) Any portable device manufactured to function as a weapon and which is commonly known as a stun gun, including a projectile stun gun which projects wired probes that are attached to the device that emit an electrical charge designed to administer to a person or an animal an electric shock, charge, or impulse; or

(ii) Any device, object, or instrument which is used or intended to be used as a weapon with the intent to injure a person by an electric shock, charge, or impulse.

Where in this does it mention tiny plastic lego toys?

Even if this were a problem, how the hell are the parents supposed to catch their kid bringing a lego gun to school? I know that responsibility falls upon those in a leadership position, but come on. Do parents really have to search their kids for weapons?

back in my day my parents actually gave a damn and inspected my back pack until i earned their trust....

Yes, they do...
How many kids are bringing illegal substances to your school that you heard of?
How many kids are bringing alcohol to school you heard of?
How many kids are bringing REAL guns to school that heard of?

The kids are doing these things because basically, their parents do not give a sh*t. Yes, these are extreme compared to a lego gun, but where do things end?

How about it ending when a kid who brings an airsoft gun to school gets shot by authorities because he pointed it at cops. Then the parents have the balls to sure to police department for a wrongful death and f******* win.

sh*t starts small and gets bigger. When you are my age and have your own kids, then come back and have this conversation.

So... you would search your nine year old son for illegal substances before he left to Elementary School?

Maybe I have just been raised in a different environment, but that seems like a pretty screwed up world to me...

I would be pretty offended if my parents decided to start searching my backpack. Now... if I were a raging maniac who dealt/did drugs, then there could be grounds for that.

Seems like everyone likes to shift blame around. If I f*** up, then I want to be punished, not my parents, school, or friends. None of them have done anything but their best to educate me, and if I do something wrong it is MY fault. Likewise, if some moron uses an airsoft gun to rob a store, punish him, not the rest of us.

your a minor, no one cares if you'd be offended, you have no rights. your parents do...

you dont seem to understand that until your 18, your parents are responsible for you, even if you screw up they are liable for any damage you inflict (even while your driving), you think thats a screwed system? tell that those idiot kids who drink and drive then get in a car accident, tell that to idiots who shot up a school, tell that to those idiots who sling drugs on campus.... you see the point?

a few idiots screwed it up for everyone, this is why i cant operate my cell phone and drive without a hands free system, because idiots screwed it up for me.... welcome to the real world eb, your gonna love it....

[/rant]

He will not be part of the REAL world till he is 18.

And yes, I do check my kids stuff before going to school, that is what a responsible parent does.

Homework - check
Binder - check
lunch money - check

Outside of that, I trust my kids enough not to bring illegal things to school, but if there was anything illegal, I would find it while looking to make sure they right things are in their bags.

Yes, that is exactly what I think. It is a screwed system that everyone must pay for a few idiots. What are you saying?

I never said parents did not have a responsibility for their children. But parents should not be hovering over their children. Parents who resort to searching backpacks, reading journals, monitoring phone calls will lose the trust of their children. You can't trust someone with information if you know it will be used against you. You wonder why kids oftentimes don't want to talk to their parents about anything? You can "make" someone fear you, do what you want, but you can't "make" someone trust or respect you.

im saying eb, your just not going to understand until you start caring for a kid, you are a child yourself and you wont get it until your a parent.

your argument comes from the perceived victim of over bearing parents, wait til you have your own, or start caring for a child... i wised up real fast and started having to lead by example around my friends kids... what happened to me is a small taste of what a parent has to go through 24hours a day... when i started helping my friends with their kids, it made me understand why my parents did what they did...

this is a very circular discussion that isn't going to go anywhere. pretty much all we can do is tell you that your wrong, and you wont believe it until you get out in the real world and start living it, when that day comes in a few years you'll look back, and say "sh*t, they were right..."